sparkey914

I've been mining the 'zine for tips on my 2000 TL (155K) engine tick. After doing the valves, the timing belt, and the tensioners with no luck, I broke down and took it to the dealer for a listen. They said it's the wrist pin on the front, center cylinder (#4?). They further said it's common, put some Lucas in it, live with it or rebuild the engine.

OK, so how many miles will I be able to "live with it"???

I confirmed the offending cylinder by pulling the plug wire with engine idling; noise went away.

Found another general engine diagnostic site that says if the noise goes away when you pull the plug wire, it is most likely piston slap or busted ring. Wrist pins fail very rarely in modern engines, and a rod knock would still knock, combustion or not.

Further suggestion is to squirt a little motor oil down the offending cylinder's plug hole on a cold engine, then button it up and start it. If the noise is at first gone, then comes back, it is a busted ring. Plan to do this test shortly.

Given the fortuitous location of the cylinder, I'm wondering if I can pull the front CylHead, the pan, extract (only) the offending piston, and replace the piston and / or rings, maybe hone the cylinder. No oversize stuff, just stock.


Anyone have any wisdom or cautions re: a one-cylinder fix?

I'm not looking for long term nirvana, I just want to keep her on the road for another year or so. Parts are ~ $300 online (the gaskets cost the most!), I can get at them without pulling the engine etc, etc...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

firewall
123
456
radiator

the J-series has a problem with cylinder 5, the center one.
spark plugs like to eject from number 5 cylinder.
but not limited to 5, as #2 could eject as well

Nicks2001tl

Or you can go with plan A and put in some Lucas additive, save 300.00 and buy yourself a pepsi with the money you saved.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

interested in this thread because you might be on to something.
as stated, the spark plugs like to eject, and its not limited to TL's either...pilots, accords, TL's...anything with a J engine

sparkey914

OK, #5. I did have a plug eject from #1 or #2, 2 yrs ago. TimeSert is holding it's own (and the plug) back there.

So I tried the oil gambit, other than a short smoke-screen, no luck.

I've already added a pint of Lucas, not much if any change. Mebbe I should put the quart in there.

So if #5 is a known issue, what's going on down there? Some kind of congenital oil starvation thing, or what?

Any opinions on how long this can go on before catastrophic failure?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

also, when my friend pulled the heads to his car, two cylinders had a spray pattern, i believe they were 5 and 2. im not sure, but can check

sparkey914

What do you mean by spray pattern - are you talking oil spray? Up from below?

So would this imply 2 and 5 run hotter than the others, thus warp, thus tick-tick-tick???

BTW, my favorite theory about the sparkplug ejection is that since these plugs are so long lived and trouble free, they can work their way loose over time and eventually back themselves out until the last few remaining threads can't handle the load and BAM!

For months prior to BAM!, I was chasing a fresh-fuel smell in the engine bay that would show up at the stoplight, etc. In retrospect, was probably fuel/air mixture being pushed out the threads on the compression stroke. Had the manifold off, etc, etc, but never checked the plug torques. Duhhhhhh...

3.2TLc

Are ya sure that the fuel injectors are all working properly ?
Just a little thinking out of the box. IDK !!!

Bottom line.....if ya only wanna another year from the car, why bother wasting time and money ???

Skirmich

Never heard of this... Any video to listen that?

3.2TLc

How's the compression ? Were the valves out of adjustment ?
So, this ticking sound goes away once the motor is up to operating temp ?

sparkey914

No one has weighed in yet on how long the engine will last with whatever is ticking / knocking in there, so I'm thinking pessimistically and looking for options.

Ticking used to go away when the engine warmed up, but doesn't completely any more. Slowly getting louder. Redid the valves a few weeks ago, everything pretty much in spec. Haven't checked compression, already know the issue is in #5.

Probably drop the pan and plastigage the rod bearing next week, see what the lower piston wall looks like.

Skirmich

Wait I just re-read are you saying the wrist pin from the piston has snapped out of place?? LOL that can't be common at all that technician must be high..

If the wrist pin was in fact out place that will lead to block damage 100% guaranteed only reason is not affecting you as for the moment is because the damage hasn't been so severe to damage the piston rings which will eventually happend.

I advice you to fix that before the damage to the block is so severe that a new engine will be in order.

sparkey914

Skirmich, I don't know where you saw "wrist pin out of place"; not in this thread.

Any opinions / experience out there on how long engines last while afflicted with piston slap or busted ring or wrist pin slop or rod bearing slop?

fsttyms1

This isnt a normal issue and is very rare. I havent seen it yet. (nor do i remember ever reading about Js blowing plugs out of the head as being common either). As for your noise and how long the motor will last it all depends on WHAT is the cause. Is it nothing more than a spun bearing? (i find odd due to the way they are made and inserted with notches to hold them in place) or is it a ring issue or something else.

I would start by doing a compression test to see if its a upper or lower issue.

Skirmich

If you ever replaced a Piston before you would understand how a Wrist pin cant have "Slop" they are just inserted or NOT as is a high pressure ring set in place with pliers. If you have indeed a Wrist pin out of place because there isn't any other position it could be; They don't go half out of place, they don't become loose, they don't go 75% out and the other in place, No! they snap or stay in place nothing in between..
You have a serious problem then and in NO WAY its a common issue.

Also Loose Plugs and Blowing Plugs isn't a Common issue either dunno who the hell you talked with in the Dealer but its pretty obvious he was doing the Technician charade. Never had a problem with my +200K Engine neither my other Hondas blowing plugs in eons and I had my fair share of Hondas! Last time I had an issue like that was with a 1987 Pontiac that had a small threaded plug issue.

If you indeed have an issue with a snap out of place Wrist pin then your ring will probably go out which will make your engine run like a V5, Wasting power and Gas..

If I were there I would have done by now:
A) Pressure Test Up/Down
B) Remove the Oil Pan to inspect side walls
C) Replaced the Faulty Piston Ring/Wrist Pin or Bearing

3.2TLc

I must agree with the others, what ya think is wrong is not a common issue with our TL's. For the most part, the motors are almost bulletproof and extremely durable when properly maintained.

If ya wanna hang on to the car for longer than a year, just run it till it blows and then drop another used motor into it. May be simpler and more cost effective, IMO.

sparkey914

Thanks for the additional tips, guys. I agree with you re: the wrist pin biz, I've seen 'em up close and oily. And other web sources say wrist pin issues are very rare in modern engines. Also said that dealer tech's just pick an explanation since they can't tell without doing a lot more than pulling a plug wire or doing the listen-through-the-screwdriver thing.

Nonetheless, there is still this temperature sensitive ticking (turning into knocking) noise coming out of cylinder 5. It doesn't seem all that rare, google "Acura engine ticking when cold" and you'll find some long threads.

I'm currently dubious it's piston related, it takes a good 5-10 minutes of driving for the noise to subside, and I would suspect the piston is the FIRST thing to warm up in an engine. I've been over the valves, haven't dropped the pan yet, but that's on the to-do list. Don't have a compression tester, but I'll call around to see if I can rent one.

Skirmich

If I search "Acura engine Ticking when Cold" I'm 99% I'm gonna end up in a Valve Related Issue as with almost any car. Not a Piston related issue though..

But since you already did your Valves twice I Ruled it out...

ErickUa5

Was the engine completely cold when the valve adjustment was done ?
If not you may want to redo it when the engine is cold.
Would be good if you can get the noise on video and post it here.

sparkey914

Yep, car had been in unheated garage overnight when I did the valves.

I'll shoot some vid tomorrow morning if it isn't still raining.

sparkey914

Headed out to record the noise that is the subject of this thread. Now I need some different advice: how do I get a recording from my iPhone onto this thread? I'm sure there's a how-to somewhere, but my searches aren't having much luck...

Skirmich

Upload video to YouTube and share the link here.

Chevelle66

Man I hate seeing threads like these, makes me start worrying about my car lol. I have some ticking, not sure what it is yet.

Hope you get this figured out OP. Guess I'll go start figuring mine out now haha.

Skirmich

^^ Valves are most likely your issue if it hasn't been done before... What OP is saying is definitely an isolated problem and not common at all if it end up being an issue with his piston, bearing.

fsttyms1

And 99% of the results will be from noisy valves, or the purge control solenoid.

Before you tear into the engine like dropping the pan, go buy or rent a compression tester. They arent that expensive and it will rule out or tell you where your issue may be.

sparkey914

OK, took me a while remember my google password and get a youtube channel. Here's a short video of the ticking sound:

For those of you advocating a compression test, please tell me how you get the tester hooked up to the plug hole at the bottom of that access tube!!!

sparkey914

Alright, dumb question #472.1:

I copied only 1 link for the video, why is it showing up twice???

TLer trash

I think it's piston slap. Valve noise won't go away when you disable the ignition, and a broken ring won't change when the engine warms up. I've seen this in a lot of high mileage hondas, and I've yet to see one fail.
I was actually going to fix my son's, but when I measured the new replacement piston, I couldn't find even .001" difference. The cylinder had no ridge, and still showed cross-hatching; indicating minimal to no wear. That was at 275,000 miles if I remember correctly. The car only started to use about 1 qt. of oil in 1,000 miles at around 375,000, and was still going at over 400,000 the last I heard. I wouldn't worry about it. Drive it gently until it warms up, and use 10w-30 if it starts to burn oil.

sparkey914

TLer, thanks for the note and deductive explanation.

I should have mentioned earlier on that I've yet to notice any smoke or uptick in oil consumption, which leads me to believe the rings and valves are OK.

So what changes occur in a piston to make it start "slapping" after 130K or so (in my case)?

TLer trash

It's almost always caused by a little too much cylinder to piston clearance. I didn't use the word "excessive", because I've seen engines that were well within spec. that rattled when cold.