gsrblack

Okay folks, I have a question for you regarding the Zaino treatment....

What poses the greatest hazard to causing scratches on your paint when you are doing the full Zaino treatment (wash, clay, dry, etc)?

Reason I ask is that I helped a friend detail up his used car which looked like the paint was in good condition and now it looks like there are a bunch of scratches on it. We did a dawn wash to strip all the old wax off, two sessions of claying, a Z7 wash followed by Z6, Z5, Z6, Z5, Z6. The paint surface is smooth and the car looks really shiney and reflective, but in the right lighting, you see the scratches.

Could the clay have caused it? Or could it be the chamois he used? The applicator pad (from Zaino)? Or could it be possible that the scratches were hidden by the wax that was on there before we removed it?

I haven't had this happen to my car though.

chef chris

Clay.

I have yet to realize why people use this crap...it may work in theory, but after one try on my old Supra, it'll never touch my cars again. Maybe in localized treatment...like behind the wheel wells to remove baked-on tar...but on the body of the car, naaaah.

rjp

Can you expand on that any.

Just put in an order for the complete kit - after reading a lot of good feedback on this board. Until now, I've used the Diamond Kote polish for 15 years.

EricL

Used by someone who doesn't know how to use it == disaster.

When used to get rid of overspray/"dry spray" and for removing embedded "junk" it works wonders. The trick is knowing how to use it. It needs a TON of lube; it must be used in the shade; the person needs to know when to toss a chunk that is too dirty; and you need to have good feel. It doesn’t hurt to have someone experienced give a hands-on lesson.

Wet sanding is something that can produce amazing results in the right hands. However, putting wet sandpaper into a noobs hands is asking for similar results.

-- Main topic, RE: scratches --

List of scratch makers:

* Towels with debris in them or towels that fail the CD-ROM scratch test. (You would be surprised how many people I've seen in my area drop a towel on concrete and continue drying their car.)

* Clay (old, dirty, not enough lube, etc).

* Washing the car with too much vigor (if the car is dirty enough, grinding off dirty with water and soap is going to scratch-up the car).

* Dirty washing implements.



-- Why you might see scratches where none where seen before --

When a car has not been perfectly maintained with 4+ coats of Zaino or constantly covered with a coat of good wax, it can get small scratches in the finish and build up even smaller scratches. A slightly dull finish will HIDE a certain number of scratches that would be obvious if the car was well cleaned. That's what they make polish, swirl mark remover, glaze, etc for... If the surface is not "perfect" a high gloss finish without "fillers" will just show off all of the small scratches in the finish. When you use the Zaino, there is no “filler” to cover/fill-in the scratches [see 3M glaze or swirl mark remover). I believe Zaino is messing around with their own “filler”/swirl mark remover (not to be confused with Z5)

YMMV

EricL

See the post above.

I can grab a can of 3M Glaze and/or SMR (swirl mark remover) and/or "hide" a ton of nasty towel marks, scratches, swirl marks, and other sins (they use fillers in addition to polishing down the paint). The "bummer" is: Zaino doesn't want to sit on top of the stuff. However, carnauba and other products are happy to either include their own "fillers" or will stick to the top of the camouflage.

The above is predicated on you not having put the marks in there with shitty towels, bad clay technique, etc...

chef chris

I can assure you it was used properly.

Anyone who recommends clay will probably also recommend wet sanding to get rid of scratches...

EricL

And that's how you managed to not have any scratches. That's complete nonsense. I guess if you get in any future accident or mishap, you’ve got your story well covered.

Or, perhaps you used playdough mixed with Carborundum?

And, finally, your one try makes you the final word... Hopeless.

18anatak

Yaaaahhhh...........i'm gonna have to go ahead and.....disagree with you on that Bob. Yeahhhh.

chef chris

Yeah, it was playdough & sand alright...straight from Clay Magic...

gimme a break...if someone can scratch their car with terry cloth, why the hell would anyone use clay?

Like it magically 'lifts' the dirt away from your paint...like Calgon, right? Take a science course & report back. Friction is friction...a thousand fine scratches from clay is no better than a big swirl from a buffer.

I'd love to see your paint job in the afternoon sun...I'm sure it looks spectacular with all those ugly fucking spiderwebs...

18anatak

Clay can scratch the shit out of a car if not used properly. The key is to polish right after claying to remove those fine scratches. Claying and then just a wax doesnt cut it.

chef chris

Ask your body shop what they think...they're pros right? Car is about done too, no?

EricL

You better stay away from body shops. They use all kinds of abrasives like:

Clay
Sand paper
Polish

They are all abrasives to some extent -- and they are all used to produce perfect paint finishes.

And that wonderful Hubble telescope, it's ground down with abrasives. So, I guess it can't be "smooth".


BTW, no spiderwebs.


RE: Clay usage:

"USING THE Z-18 CLAYBAR
Before using a Z-18 ClayBar on your car, you must thoroughly clean and dry your car to remove any loose dirt. Direct sunlight should not fall on your car's surface, and it's best if the work area is relatively cool to prevent rapid evaporation of the clay lubricant.

To use the clay bar, you spray a water-based lubricant (1/2 a cap of Z-7 Show Car Wash with 16 ounces of water) on a small area of your car and rub the bar back and forth with light to medium pressure. Z-18 ClayBar should glide across your paint like a hockey puck on ice. If the lubricant begins to dry, and the Z-18 ClayBar begins to drag, you'll need to spray more lubricant. Clay is fairly sticky, and cannot be used dry. "

I even use distilled water + Z7 and I DON'T USE THE CLAY TO REMOVE LUMPS OF TAR!!!

I have great results with Zaino's clay. I rarely use it, don’t need to use it often, but it’s a tool – one of many. If you use the wrong tool for the wrong job, well, shit happens. You either learn about it, or whine to everyone about how it must be the tool's fault.




And, here are those nasty 3M people selling clay too:

"Q: I sometimes have a problem with fine particles which settle on paintwork when vehicles are left out in the open? What should I do to remove them ?

A: Use 3M™ Perfect-it™ III Cleaner Clay (38070). This comes in the form of a block of slightly sticky, clay-like substance with a very mild abrasive. It is used with soapy water to pick up industrial fall-out. The problem - which is surprisingly common - is caused by pollution from factory chimneys, incinerators or sparks from railway power lines. This falls as hot, often metallic particles. Removal by compounding poses the risk of trapping particles under the buff and causing deep scratches. It is simpler, quicker and cleaner to remove the contamination with 3M Perfect-it III Cleaner Clay, leaving a surface which you can glaze over with 3M™ Perfect-it™ III Finishing Glaze (09377)."

http://cms.3m.com/cms/GB/en/2-29/ucRlEP/view.jhtml

chef chris

I don't remember whining about shit, but I digress...don't want you falling off your soapbox & hurting yourself.

I prefer my vehicles without scratches.

...And reading 3M's advertisements to see if their product works...ingenious. That's gotta be THE best source for pure, unbiased info.

EricL

I had a different impression of you from other posts and I can see that was not warranted.

At this point: :whocares:

chef chris

Agreed. To each his own.