A SiQ TL

I've gotten together with Ron A about putting a thread in the 3g Garage on crank pulleys. Since there are many threads on the topic, I am going to try to condense as much of the information that I can into this thread. Much of this compiled info is from Excelerate (Josh). He is an official vendor here and seems to be very knowledgeable.

We have 4 main pulleys for our car: crank, alternator, power steering, & A/C. Each pulley spins it's accessory. There's only one aftermarket pulley made for our car, it's the crank pulley. The most popular maker of aftermarket pulley for our car seems to be Unorthodox Racing (UR). http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/ UR makes 2 kinds , a lightweight underdrive pulley (Ultra S), and a lightweight stock sized pulley (Ultra Sc). Their stock diameter pulley is the same as our OEM pulley, where as the underdrive pulley is slightly smaller in diameter, and therefore underdrives the accessories slightly.

Which pulley you choose depends on what you plan to do with the car. If you are going to run a sound system in your car that will be over 600 watts RMS, or put a supercharger in eventually, then get the stock sized pulley,(as the undersized spins the accessories at a lower rate which means your alternator won't be charging to full capacity and the supercharger won't be getting full boost).

The horsepower gains are mostly achieved thru the lighter weight, but the gains for the stock sized are approximately 7-8 hp, and maybe 1 hp more with the underdrive (as it is smaller). It doesn't generate more horsepower, it just frees up what you have. With a lighter weight pulley it takes less force to rotate it so it will spin quicker and you will build power quicker. With less rotating mass the power produced by the engine is used to propel the car forward, rather than turn the heavier crank pulley.

You will have to get a new, shorter serpentine belt for the underdrive pulley. UR recommends Gates brand belts. With the stock sized pulley you can re-use your original belt, but you should inspect it to ensure it is free from tearing, shredding, cracks, etc.

Here are a few shots of what it looks like when it's on, thanks to Inaccurate;

If you have an 07 Type S you can still have this. TLFourplay has already done it. Here are his pics;
Some of the "internet hearsay" is that we can not use this product as it does not have a Harmonic Balancer. This does not apply to us as Honda does not use Harmonic Balancers on their crank pulleys. All Honda engines are internally balanced.

Here is a link to a very informative thread. I know it's titled Comptech exhaust, but it is LOADED with info and pics.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=pulley

A few quotes from people on the forum that have this, "...car feels snappier, quicker", "...revs a lot faster... freely and smoother", "...better throttle response", and, "...noticeable gain in torque".

Finally if you visit http://unorthodoxracing.com/ click on Information (it's on the right ), click on View Details>FAQ and select Pulleys from the drop down menu, that should answer any other question you may have.

P.S. Inaccurate & TLFourplay, thanks for the use of the pics, please leave them up as long as possible as I hope this makes the garage.

A SiQ TL

If anybody has anything to add, or if I've forgotten anything, please post it up.

TLFourplay

iTrader: (1)

Hey awesome, my link for the pics are up to stay so no worries there. A point to expand upon is probably the removing of the crank bolt. It seems to be a problem area for a lot of people.

I know with the 6spd all you really have to do is put it in 6th gear, have someone hold the breaks, and put some muscle on a breaker bar.

I had the pleasure (ugh) of putting a 4pc UR pulley set on a friend's IS300 which was an automatic. Well we ended up having to remove the flexplate inspection cover and holding that in order to keep the pulley from removing to get the nut off. I dont know what the exact procedure is for the auto TL.

Pretty much everything I read about the pulley people are having problems with that. Other than that, as someone who has changed the pulley on my own it is very easy.

DEFINITELY #1 mod I have done, revs faster, accelerates faster, and on top of all of that it gets 2mpg avg better all the time. Excellent.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Various methods to get the Crank Pulley bolt off:

Borrowed/Edited from BlackV62K2

Number 1. The "Blip" method.
The general idea is that you get a long breaker bar, with the appropriate size socket on the end, place the socket on the pulley bolt, and wedge the other end of the bar on the ground. The bar should be facing towards the front of the car, regardless of whether the car is a 4cyl or a V6. Then, you disable the ignition, preferably by pulling the fuse for the fuel injectors (not required but safer). After you're satisfied that you've disabled the fuel system, jump in the car, place your key in the ignition and blip the engine (try to turn the engine over). The idea is that the force of the starter motor rotating the crank pulley will be enough to break the bolt loose.



This is probably a bad idea for the 2007's which have the "one touch" start. I did it with my 2006 with 1 1/2 second blip...

Number 2. The impact wrench method.
Everyone says "get a good impact wrench, that'll get it off!". I have a good impact wrench. It's an Aircat 1/2" drive, that puts out 1000 foot pounds of torque in reverse. Did it work to loosen the bolts on any of the three cars I have tried it on? Hell no, it didn't!. I've heard about people taking their car to a service garage to see if they could loosen the bolt, and they couldn't do it with their impact wrenches either.

On the other hand, some people have professed success with this method, so if you have the tool, give it a try........it should be your first point of call; then if it doesn't work (like it probably won't), you can try some of the other methods. I've tried to soak the bolt with PB Blaster a few times, just in case it actually helps, but it never does. It stands to reason really, because it's not like you can get the lube on the threads itself, so it doesn't help a bit.

Number 3. The 5 foot steel pipe method.
This method has worked nicely on two of the three cars I have tried it on. It worked on both 4cyl cars, but not the V6. For this, you need a piece of steel pipe around 5 feet in length, a couple of 10" long 1/2"dr extension bars, a way to stop your crank pulley from turning, and a strong breaker bar or long ratchet. I've used my friends 20" Mac ratchet for this, because it's very strong. First, you need to stop the pulley from turning. I use a Honda Crankshaft Pulley Tool that I bought from Amazon.com It has hexagonal faces that fit inside the face of the pulley and holds it still, while giving you access to the head of the bolt. If you don't have this tool, you could try using a chain wrench, but that might crew up your pulley, so that's up to you.

Use the extension bars to bring your ratchet out from under the wheel well, otherwise, you won't be able to get your pipe on there. Some people place something like a jack stand or a stool under the head of the ratchet to help support it, but I've never found a need for this. Attach your ratchet to the end of the extension bar, slide your steel pipe over the end and all the way to the head of the ratchet. Point the pipe in a direction that lets you pull down on it, so you can use your weight; you don't want to be pushing up on it.

Ok, now give it all you've got! lean on it. stand on it .....but be careful that it doesn't spring if you slip! Get ready for a loud noise, because if your ratchet or any of your tools break, it's guaranteed to be loud. Also, if the bolt actually breaks loose, it complains at you by emitting a loud cracking noise! If your breaker bar or ratchet breaks, I'm sorry; hopefully it's a Craftsman or something they will replace for free. If the bolt breaks loose, well done!! Don't think though, that just because you budged it with that big pipe that it's now able to be removed with a regular ratchet......you might need to use all that leverage a couple more times, before it will be loose enough to remove by hand.

Number 4. The floor jack method.
Sometimes the steel pipe just doesn't give you the leverage that you need. Maybe the extension bars are absorbing too much of that torque you're generating, or maybe you just keep breaking your ratchet? regardless of the reason that you haven't succeeded yet, there's one last thing to try before seeking outside assistance.

This is the only thing that worked for me, when I was installing my underdrive pulleys on my V6 Accord. First, secure your Crankshaft Pulley with the holding tool, then place your breaker bar or long ratchet with the socket attached directly to it, on the pulley bolt.....let it hang there. You should already have your car up on jack stands, so take your jack, and place it directly under the end of your ratchet/breaker bar. The handle on the ratchet/breaker bar, should be hanging straight down, so move the handle a little in the direction that the bolt needs to be turned, so that it's now a little bit of an angle. That part is completely obvious to anyone with an elementary school education, but if you don't do it, you'll just jack your car up! Move your jack under the tip of the handle, and bring the jack up to meet the handle, and put a little jack pressure on it to hold it there. Make sure that when you start to jack it up, there is no part of the car that will get in the way or get damaged in the process.

If you're lucky enough to have a huge aluminum racing jack like me, you have a long handle that will keep you safely out of the way of the action. If you have a regular jack, just make sure that you stand with part of the car between you and anything that might break and fly off. The nice thing about this method is that even if something breaks in the process the jack won't spring up and do any damage to the car, and you can't fall on your face like when the ratchet breaks in the steel pole method!. Pretty much the only thing that can happen here is: A. The bolt will break loose, B. The ratchet/breaker bar will snap, or C. You'll jack the car up and the bolt won't budge.

If you break your tools, don't blame me .....maybe you should have bought something stronger. If you jack your car up and the bolt doesn't move, you should know that if you have the majority of the weight of a 2500-3500lb car on that bolt, and it still isn't moving .......guess what.....it aint comin' off!! I've read nasty horror stories about using a torch to heat up the bolt, and ending up with melted rubber engine parts and warped metal engine parts. I guess that's your call, but I wouldn't try it.

jonathan.chance

Great thread As soon as my pulley gets here I'll be sure to reference the info here.

flick0069

If I have a stock sound system and no SC, you would go with the Ultra S, correct? How much would the Navi be affected? The Ultra S would give the bigger gain in performance.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Flick, please do some reading on this mod first, as it appears you have no idea what it does or how it works based on these questions.

If you have a stock stereo and no SC, then call Josh at Excellerate and order "the underdrive pulley and belt", as this will yield the most gains. If you plan to SC or go 1000W of bump in the near future, you MUST go with the "stock size" pulley.

The Navigation system is completely, and totally un affected by engine's accessory crank pulley...

flick0069

He said the the pulley underdrives the acessories by 15%....wondering what accesories he meant. Thought the NAVI was part of that.

I did read the post just wanted to clarify a few questions. Is that OK with you? I mean the whole purpose of these forums is to share information and ask questions when you not sure about certain things.

A SiQ TL

The accessories are the other 3 pulleys we have on our cars, the pulleys which are run off the serpentine belt.

JOES05tl

I don't know if this belongs here, but it seems like the right place! I have an underdrive pulley and gates belt with less than 2 months useage. I had to get the stock sized one cuz' I have bumps, didn't know the ud pulley wouldnt work. Anyone want it? It has sat in my garage for quite some time, doing nothing. PM-

bigmoetl1

I just got my stock ur pulley I will try to install this weekend hopefully I can use the blip method. Does the belt have a tensioner you have to pull

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Put a wrench on the tensioner and push towards the firewall (pretty hard).

bigmoetl1

I just recieved the stock ur pulley from excellerate super fast shipping can't wait to put it on. One question in the instructions it states it takes 5-7 days for the computer to notice the pulley and adjust the power is this true?

Inaccurate

"It revs-out quicker". I hear this comment often in regards to the pulley. I agree that it does. However, I do not agree with the attitude in which it is stated. It is implied that "yes, it revs quicker but the car is not quicker." Now, think about this for a second. How can the engine rev quicker without the car gaining the respective MPH too ??? The transmission gearing did Not change. So, my point is don't say that the engine revs-out quicker and then said it's not quicker. It is quicker (my opinion based on experience. I have No ET's to prove it.).


I think the reason some people do not feel it is because of psychology. When I drove the first mile with my new pulley, I thought similarly (that it was not quicker). I gave the gas pedal the same amount of push as before, but the car "felt" like it was not accelerating as much. And, there is the psychology problem. The car is accelerating so much easier with the pulley, and it "revs out quicker", that the brain says "the car is no longer accelarating for the given amount of gas pedal depression". And, this is true. You give X amount of gas pedal, the car "uses up" this X amount of pedal more quickly than before, and the brain does not realize it.

Ok, I know this is confusing. Let's try explaining it slightly differently. When we drive *normally* (not hot rodding), we subconsciously push the gas pedal down to a certain point. We are accustomed to expecting a corresponding amount of acceleration from this given amount of gas pedal. But, our brains perceives this X amount of accelerating as how long (length of time) that the car will need to pull thru each gear. But, NOW with the pulley, the car pulls (revs-out) thru each gear so much easier and quicker. So, our brain perceives this reduces length of time to pull thru each gear as *being slower*. Push the pedal, the engine quickly pulls that gear, and the brain says "is that all there is ?".

Everyone says (if you do an extensive search on past postings), that the computer does Not need to learn when installing the pulley because the engine did Not change, so that there is nothing to for the computer to learn. Logically, I agreed with this. But, my actual experience with the pulley said otherwise. I know that my car did have better drivability after about 200 miles after getting the pulley. Before the first 200 miles, I noticed that the pulley and the remaining parts of the car just were not "on the same page together", or the pulley and the rest of the car just were not in harmony together. But, after the 200 miles, the pulley and the car were "making beautiful music together in perfect harmony".

So, the engine computer might Not need to learn about the pulley. BUT the TRANSMISSION computer definitely needs to learn new shifting patterns. The engine revs SoOoooO much easier with the pulley, it is easy to see that the trans computer needs to relearn how to cope with this change. And, the driver's psychology will need time to re-adjust too (perhaps the biggest factor).

tidus888

thats right! =)

logically.. if crank can spin faster.. means tranny can spin faster.. meaning car can accelerate faster =)

tidus888

oo right... are there any concerns with changing the pulley in places like canada.. were the roads are salt in the winter and all?

italian_spak

im kind of scared of the blip method, cant you just use a proper socket and a compressor to undo the bolt and change the pulley?

A SiQ TL

you can try, but I don't believe anybody has been very successful with that. Most have to try something else. I'm sure it can be done as I don't see our dealers service dept using the blip method. but then again ...........

italian_spak

for those who have installed it can you tell us how you did it?

RjS

Please read the post again for your answer. Give you a hint...






"Kennedy"

topckret

Hey guys, I don't want to impede on the thread, but can you guys please just go on this thread and just add your names to the petition even if you guys already have exhausts, whether comptech or not, whether you want an exhaust or not, i need names (bodies) to sign up on the petition so we can get GReddy to manufacture us a catback...Thank you for your cooperation. Here's the website:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153880

italian_spak

i meant if there is another method than that ''blip method''

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Yes, there are 4 alternative methods described in my post... The blip method is the easiest as it requires no power tools. What else do you want to know that isn't already discussed in this thread?

Inaccurate

Farm it out !!!!!

After I researched the forum, I decided that DIY was not the smart decision for me. And, I have a mechanic background... perhaps this mechanic experience is why I could visualize what a PITA it would be without proper tools.

I took mine to an "upscale" shop that specializes in Honda's. At first they wanted to charge me something like $180, according to the labor book. I said no way. It is a simple R&R (remove and replace), and it is easy to reach. We agreed on $60. It took just 20 minutes.

SHORT ANSWER = PAY $60 TO HAVE A SHOP DO IT.

01tl4tl

The term -underdrives the accessories- does not mean underpower the normal load

It does mean reduced revs at higher engine rpm

We used to burn out alternators on the showroom stock roadrace car, too many full redline revs for the stock units bearings- they would burn up.
Makers base things on the AVERAGE (not acurazine type person) driver and the lower rpm they cruise at.

Under is great as long as you are not powering a sound system designed to........
well, I dont know what you do with that much volume!!!!!

italian_spak

For 60$ i wont even get mu hands dirty, ill find a good shop and try n get a good bargain like you did

A SiQ TL

You turn it up til your ears bleed, then you turn it down just a LITTLE.










I agree, When/if I decide to do this I will take it to someone. I would end up eff-ing something up. FUBAR

jonnyn

I was wondering how you hold the new pulley to tighten the crank bolt? The stock pulley has the hex shape to put the tool in, but the new pulley doesn't.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

I have the same questions (froma different post):

Here's a hard question... When I installed my pulley, I had a hard time tightening up the pulley bolt, as it had a tendency to turn the crank at high torque. I even went and got the wife, had her sit with the foot on the brake and tried to tighten (which helped), but right as I hit that "engine rotation" torque, the crank would turn a bit...

Right now, my pulley is "as tight as I can get it".

What did everyone else do to lock the engine get the proper torque? I bet there are a lot of folks out there with the pulley "as tight as they could get it".

cbronze07

Guys,
I was repeatedly having the same frustration about the crank pulley bolts. I purchased the synthetic Ingersoll Rand super duty 1/2 " drive impact, and it was claimed to have around 1000 ft lbs of "nut busting" tourque, but it would not budge the crank pulley bolts on the several Hondas that I tried it on.

I returned the 1/2" drive impact, and purchased an Aircat super duty 3/4" impact with 1350 ft lbs reverse tourque. On the first try it blasted the bolt loose within one or two seconds, and I have yet to find the crank bolt it wont pull.

If you guys try this, be sure to use a fairly short length of air hose, because a long hose will be too restrictive for the wrench to develop full power.

Lee

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Lee,
What was your approach to tightening the bolt with the new pulley installed?

cbronze07

Kennedy,
I clean the threads on the bolt and crank, then use blue Loctite on them for extra insurance. In the past, I have removed the flywheel cover and had an assistant jam the flywheel with a pry bar, but I feel that it is really not necessary. Lately, I have just used the loctite, and tightened the bolt with a 1/2" impact wrench.

I have gone through two timing belts and one hundred twenty thousand miles on my mother's Accord with no ill effects with the above method.

Lee

jonathan.chance

I finally got my pulley installed today... there's no way in hell I would've been able to do it without pimpin_tl and Kracker; so many,many thanks go to those guys for really going above and beyond for a fellow forum member.

What a pain in the ass this turned out to be. We tried the breaker bar method, the impact wrench method, the breaker bar with a 3 foot extension bar (for leverage) and the blip method with no luck. That's right, the starter didn't even have enough force to break the pulley bolt free. Pimpin even tried to apply a little heat to the bolt to help free up the bolt but we didn't really know what level to take the heat to so we backed away from this approach out of fear of seriously screwing something up.

Luckily pimpin has some connections and got us into his friends shop. The shop owner, and one hell of a nice guy, even broke two of his impact wrench sockets trying to get the bolt off. I was ready to give up on the damn thing when out came the torch. I trust pimpin - but I was a little apprehensive when I saw the blue flame. He assured me that the shop owner was a good mechanic and knew what he was doing so while they applied the flame I was sweating bullets. The impact wrench went back on and the bolt came off smoothly. I was thoroughly impressed.

The engine revs quicker and smoother than before. I won't go so far as to say that the car feels like it has more power but I'm a happy guy. I was gonna try to compare my fuel mileage from my drive there and then back home (about 160 miles each way) but I got a little anxious on the way home and sped too much to get an accurate comparison.

I managed to throw a CEL during the blip method - don't ask. But Kracker cleared that for me. I did get 5 different Acuralink fault messages that I can't clear so if anyone knows how to clear those out of the navi system memory I'd appreciate the tip.

Like I said before I couldn't have done this without pimpin_tl and Kracker. These guys are top-notch and demonstrate exactly how great some members of this forum are. I can't wait to drive back down to SA to help these guys when they get ready to do a new mod.

pimpin-tl

Yea that was one heck of a fun project. I was really surprised the blip method with the starter just wouldn't work. It wasn't strong enough. But we learned a new way of removing those bolts. Lot's of heat.

ding069

the blip method didn't work for me either, no matter how may times i cranked the engine. even with a 6" or 10" impact extension.

what kind of torch did he use to heat up the bolt, and for approx how long?

i have a mapp gas and propane torch here, but was kinda scared to use it. i heard that the timing belt is behind there and you can melt it if you not careful.

pimpin-tl

well if you concentrate on only hitting the bolt you are fine. The torch will work with the blue flame on the bolt towards the back of the bolt till its getting red, then you hit the damn thing with a strong impack.

jonathan.chance

He used a oxygen/acetylene torch I think???? And heated it up for about 3-5 minutes.

jonathan.chance

pimpin... what's with this new avatar pic?

pimpin-tl

See Signature.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

How do you go about removing the UR Crank Pulley since there is no hex in it to use the special tool required to remove the sotck crank pulley?