SodaLuvr

Hi folks,

I’m about to do some brake work and am in need of a brake caliper lube recommendation.

I plan to use the products to lube the necessary parts and apply it to the pad backings (shim) to eliminate brake noise.

I was told that the rubbery anti-squeal compound of the past is no longer preferred and new preference by pad manufacturers is to use synthetic brake caliper grease that allows more movement of the pad against the caliper.


Permatex:

PRODUCT BENEFITS
• Prevents disc brake squealing
• Prevents long bolt and sleeve seizing and galling
• Outperforms ordinary caliper grease and traditional disc brake quiet
• Non-silicone, non-petroleum based formula
• Pure synthetic lubricant, environmentally safe

TYPICAL APPLICATIONS
• Long and short bolts
• Sleeves
• Bushings
• Outboard pad backing plate
• Inboard pad backing plate
• Disc brake calipers
• Caliper pins
• Pistons

DIRECTIONS FOR USE
1. Wirebrush the caliper housing and anchor plate to remove all dirt and dust.
2. Apply Permatex Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube to all moving caliper hardware, mating surfaces and steel backing plates of the disc brake pads.
3. Any excess grease that squeezes out from the mating surfaces should be removed.
Note: Keep lubricant off pads and rotors.



CRC:

"Backing plates, brake pad contact points, caliper o-rings, calipers, disc brake pads, drum brake systems, grommets, parking brake areas of lubrication, pivot points, self adjusters"

DISC BRAKES
Shimmed disc brake pads
Rotor hats (Underside)
Caliper slides, bolts & pins
All metal-to-metal contact points

DRUM BRAKES
Shoe landings (Bosses
Brake Hardware
Parking brake hardware & cables
Drum brake adjusters



Both seem to have the same uses. CRC product is $6.99 for the 8oz versus $14.99 for the Permatex.

What one is better? What direct experience do you have with either product? Which one eliminates brake squeal better?

Thanks.

01tl4tl

I used the $1 little pack of brake grease at the parts store
Works fine
If you want to spend more thats ok- either product is fine for our application
Those tubs are lifetime supplies if you are a mechanic!

merkin110

I definently need to apply some of these to my brake pads. My brakes squeal like a pig

SodaLuvr

Try the CRC one and let me how well it works.

drcookie

yup ... the $0.99 pack works just fine for me when I changed the front brakes and rotors.

SodaLuvr

Remember what brand?

fsttyms1

I think hte last time i used that it was the permatex brand. I havent used it yet on the though. Havent had a need to with the brake pads ive used

01tl4tl

The brand is whatever the little packs next to the register are!
they have one for every need from caliper grease to anti sieze and
if we had plug wires- boot lube!

Those with brake noise should inspect the rotor edges for a ridge

drcookie

Sorry, I did not pay attention to the brand. I got it from PepBoys. Careful when you pick it up, there are two similar packages where PepBoys put next to each other (at least for the store I went to). One box has Brake Anti-Squel lube and the other box has lube for battery terminals. I almost picked up the other one.

SodaLuvr

Spoke with CRC this morning:

So it appears that if the pads that you are using shimmed pads, then you use the synthetic grease. If you are using unshimmed pads, then rubbery goop it is.

01tl4tl

we have shimmed pads- stay slippery

merkin110

Are aftermarket pads such as rotora and satisfied pros shimmed as well?

01tl4tl

Yes our car Gen2 TL uses shims with the pads.
I cant say about ALL brands.... I only bought the HAWK HPS -
and the shims are built right on to the backing plate

Just a little lube at the contact points with caliper and it was good

Others may not have any- its obvious when you look- and require transfer of the old ones or buy a hardware kit with new ones. If using old ones I would grease UNDER the shim as well as the normal points of contact.
The little packs of grease even have a diagram!
Loud noises are often ~pad type~ related or failure to clean old rotors (150 grit sandpaper)and putting new pads on them- almost guarantee noise that way

SodaLuvr

Many of the mid-line to premium pads that are marketed for everyday driving come shimmed from the factory. For performance pads such as Rotora and EBC, it just depends. If the pads aren't shimmed, you may be able to eliminate noise problems by simply using the "Disc Brake Quiet" rubber paste on the pad backings, not the grease.

Oh, and you should never use grease underneath the shims. Grease only goes between the caliper and the matching points on the brake pad shim itself. NEVER between the pad and the shim.

From: http://aa1car.com/library/2005/ic80560.htm

01tl4tl

Thanks for the info Soda

As I said I bought Hawks with backing shim installed
Was trying to imagine ways to eliminate noise- my bad
NO GREASE BETWEEN PAD BACKING AND SHIM

SodaLuvr

I talked to CRC again today and apparently this entire brake lube plot gets thicker.

The definition of shimmed by CRC and other polymer industries than what many pad manufacturers consider as shimmed.

CRC's engineers state that brake pads with a slice of metal built right onto the backing plate (they call this a metal gage riveted to the backing plate) is NOT a shimmed brake pad. The only pad design they consider to be "shimmed" are pads with actual, separate shims like those that are featured in the OEM pads. Shims that are detachable and must be user-installed. Any pads with riveted, pre-installed metal pieces that are not user removable are not considered shimmed pads.

Thus, nearly all of the aftermarket pads we use on this forum: EBC Greenstuff, Hawk HPS, Raybestos, etc should be using the tacky CRC Disc Brake Quiet compound (or Permatex brand one), not the synthetic disc brake caliper grease that I had mentioned earlier. My error. The only pad designs that are supposed to use the grease are the Honda ones with the user installed shims.

Hope this clears everything up...

kuni808

Speaking of brakes. man mines are squeeking too haha. im not sure if its the pad type. 01tl4tl do you have a slight squeel with the Hawk hps?? im wondering if it is because i did not use enough of the squeel thing. i might have to go back and redue the pads one more time. do you put that goop between the shim and the pad or the caliper piston and the shim?? i might have done it wrong haha.

01tl4tl

I am now using CRC Synthetic Caliper Grease- its fine for our brakes

DO NOT apply between the pad and its backing plate/shim

DO APPLY to the unthreaded top end of the caliper mount bolts, the pad backing plates where there is contact with the caliper, the metal slider rails on the mount (clean first)
and the tabs on the end of the pads where they locate in the bracket
Simple to do and do right.

My Hawks do not make a noise I hear, but I do make sure to use them as designed and warm them up from time to time with a fun run.

merkin110

This past weekend I applied the 1 dollar packet of grease the sell at the auto store and they work pretty well. It still sqeals but only when I first apply my brake a few times.

SodaLuvr

What pads do you have?

So did you end up using the Permatex grease? Or what brand?

merkin110

I have satisfied pro ceramics and I used a packet of permatex grease.

digitu

can someone post a pic of where this grease is supposed to go before i put them all over my rotors?

SodaLuvr

What pads do you have?

Anyway, if you read my previous post, I learned that if you have a shim that is riveted to the pad, you should be using disc brake quiet.

If you are using OEM pads with detachable shims, you can use the disc caliper grease.

Either way, apply a even coat of the product to the side of the pad that CONTACTS THE CALIPER. Whether it being the shim or the pad backing, make sure its only on the side that contacts the caliper.

If you are using disc brake quiet, let it tacky up for 10 minutes before installation.

Gfaze

Every time I do a brake job I use the Permatex synthetic brake lube on the back of the pads. They're only $0.99 a packet at Kragen Auto. I also lubricate any moving parts where lubrication's needed. Never had a problem.

01tl4tl

Lube the metal slider plates on the mount- then the unthreaded top section of the caliper to bracket bolts
the back of the pad backing where it contacts the caliper piston, and the other side where the fixed arms of the caliper (outer side of rotor) meet the pad, and the little tabs on the end of the pad where they sit in the bracket
All should move freely when done or something is wrong
Brakes need to move to function
Just clean and inspect- its obvious where its needed
Also put a little grease on the center of rotr hub where the rotor fits over it, prevent later probs, I even grease the back of the rims to hub contact points as well
When in doubt look at pic on 1$ packets of grease

digitu

picked up some Akebono ProActs on eBay for $14.....being my first brake job I guess it'll make a lot more sense when I actually take the brakes off and can see what everyones talking about.

SodaLuvr

Akebonos use detachable shims, so on those just smear a thin coat of synthetic disc brake caliper grease on the side of the shim that mounts against the caliper. A grease pack is included in the box. Also smear a thin coat of grease on the pins before installing them to ensure even braking.

PS: I think despite CRC's recommendation to use the tacky stuff on nonshimmed pads (or whatever they consider nonshimmed), the latest synthetic caliper greases are so good anyway that they probably outperform the tacky products, so I wouldn't hesitate to use the grease in place of the glue anyway, IMO, especially the purple ceramic grease from Permatex or even any of the other synthetic caliper greases.

GQstyle

Posted this on another thread, but I'm hoping I can get some feedback here. It's regarding Hawk HPS pads that have the shims built into the pad (only found out after I installed them). I installed the OEM shims on top of the pads.



Really appreciate any info!

01tl4tl

Take it back apart today!!!!

The new shims are built in for a reason and the old ones go in the recycle bin
Remember to use a little caliper grease on the backing plate of pads to reduce noise and improve operation

01tl4tl

Very few pads come with caliper grease.
Some want you to use their special product so they include it.
Just by the $1 little packs or the $10 pint of CRC synthetic

SodaLuvr

Actually the FSM shows two shims in the diagram for the front brakes, IIRC, for the front brakes. It states to grease both sides of each shim...

If it only makes it more confusing, for the rear brakes, there is one shim on the outboard side, and two shims on the inboard side. But the FSM says to only grease the side of the shim that touches the brake pad.

01tl4tl

Soda
Will you please throw away that manual unless you are installing OE dealer aquired parts!
Just grease the back of the built in shims and contact points on those new hi tech pads and enjoy!

SodaLuvr

Actually, if you think about it...you can transfer the principles that the engineers were trying to express with their greasing strategy (for the OEM pads) to your aftermarkets.

01tl4tl

Yea- And back when I said grease between the backing plate and shim- I got flamed-
but now the book says it, ohhhh must be the right way!!!

With the aftermarket hi perf pads- MOST are coming with the shim attached in some unknown adhesive method to the pad back
Simply caliper grease anything that moves or touches- including where the rotor slips over the hub centering ridge, the back of the wheel rim where it touches the hub etc
Dont forget those caliper bolts have a bare section to let the caliper move sideways and a set of flat metal rails for same- make sure to clean and lube those especially well!

I guess the real question is: What is the OE pad thickness total with backing plate, versus new Hawks or Rotoras total thickness- are the replacements a few mil thicker and replace shims with pad meat?
shims just take up slack and there seems to be none in my system- installed Hawk HPS straight out of box on my car

Note: Josh/Excelerate says NEW design rotora pads supposed to equal or better Hawk HPS and designed to work with rotora slotted rotors for 6MT cars and others
He is waiting for feedback and som epersonal experience to back that claim

Installed a full Rotora rotor/pad set on despers 05-6 MT and waiting till broken in fully to do some heads up testing against my RB w/Hawk and him on Rotoras with Brembo front calipers (yikes!)
Time to break out the special testing equipment and do some laps at track day

01tl4tl

Leaving OE shims on top of new pads with built in shims will result insufficient clearance and pad drag against rotor
First you notice the smell, then the wierd braking then you take it apart and fix before burning up the new pads.

Wheel torque 80 ft lbs!

GQstyle

Alright, so I went out and got some Permatex synthetic brake lube/grease, pulled off the OE shims, and laid a nice layer of grease on the backs of all 4 pads. Also lubed up the unthreaded part of the caliper bolt.

Took it for a quick test drive, and I didn't really notice any difference...then again, I didn't notice any noise or anything before w/ the shims on. But I like to do things right, and just thinking about the thickness of the OE shims, I must have been wearing the pads a little prematurely. Hopefully, it's all good now.

Thanks for the advice 01tl4tl...and to everyone who helped!

01tl4tl

Good job GQ !

Did you also grease the metal slider plates the caliper goes side to side on? They are on the mounting bracket at top/bottem of caliper area
And the end of the pads where the metal tab is- grease it there or on the caliper bracket
Thats where you get vertical movement of the pad as brake applied/released
I make sure everything is clean and lubed because I use the brakes in the manner they were designed for (not OE parts)

nachob

Gentlemen, I no longer have my Acura TSX but came across the same problem with my BMW 325i. (Yes, I came over to the dark side!) BMW OEM pads also have an attached "shim" which I read here that it is not considered a shim by CRC. I also purchased both the CRC gooey stuff and CRC grease. When I saw the warning about only using the gooey stuff on unshimmed pads, I used the grease instead. It works for the most part, though after a couple of days I have a slight squeak. My friend the German Car Mechanic swears by the CRC goop and told me to use it but I wanted to try it myself. Now after seeing the post about CRC not considering the permanent shims to be shimmed pads and my own experience with slight squeal, I will go back to and put the goop on. Yes, the squeal is very slight and actually doesn't bother me but I know the next time my friend rides in my car and hears the squeals after he told me to use the goop, he will let me have it. So if it helps anyone with permanent shims, my recommendation is try the goop. Also, there is less risk of contaminating the pads and rotors with the grease which could be disastrous. I hope that helps my ex-Acura brethren.

IB

01tl4tl

the goop is glue- used on bimmers and the like to hold pads in position
They have a different mettalury mentality than we do

consult the manual for each particular car before deciding what to use

Grease is used on our cars so that everything moves!
Pretty hard to get grease on the pads if you work with eyes open!!
lube the sliders and end tabs, back of pads where pistons hit,,done

nachob

BMWs have so much crap gadgets that you don't need to have your eyes open. Only Lexus tops them where you don't even have to hold the steering wheel, it drives itself for you. : ) All that aside, the contamination I referred to was in high temp (autocrossing, track) where the grease might liquify and drip run onto the braking surface... oh but I guess the Acura guys don't do a lot of hard driving.... LOL.

So what is mettalury? Not sure about the mentality reference. I'm a fan, that's why I bought an Acura, just nowadays the motors are so strong, especially the TL that I no longer like Front Wheel Drive with so much power. I loved the older ones. The clincher was the new beak styling that made me switch since I do autocross, road trip. That's the only mentality difference. If Acura made the TL or TSX in rear wheel drive, I would buy one in a heartbeat.... well, they would have to make them pretty again like the early TL or TSX, but with that said, great cars. Not a fan of AWD either, too complex, heavy, expensive in the long run with gearboxes, CV joints, boots, etc. Anyway, I consider the people here as car guys just like me, I just switched chariots.